new use for existing product

13

Comments

  • yankeestonkyankeestonk subscriber Posts: 1
     
    Does anyone have an opinion on me just pitching the idea to the manufacturer of the existing product? What if I presented the idea to companies that are big names in the pet product industry? Is there a "best chance" for me to protect my idea this way, in other words, is there something I should try and get signed etc. before I pitch the idea? And since I`m just the guy with the idea, what would be my role if they think the idea is worth pursuing? Would I just look for a dollar amount for the idea and run? I`m thinking now from everyone`s imput that I probably can`t "patent" an idea for someone elses product, and that if I try to market it myself I`m likely to get blown away by the big boys once they discover that my idea has a market and I don`t have any protection on it. I appreciate everyone`s input, even if some if it isn`t what I wanted to hear. I just did a internet search on "new idea for existing product" to get some more ideas and "we`re" number 3 and 4 in the search. So we may have bantered this around about as much as anyone. ( except 1 and 2 of course ! )
    Thanks
  • yankeestonkyankeestonk subscriber Posts: 1
    hey Craig,
    Now that`s a helpful answer ! Thanks! It would be along those lines. I`ve contacted the manufacturer and one of the companies that makes the item that I want to "clean" about it, not giving away the idea. But I think maybe I just need to get it packaged and start selling it or marketing it . I haven`t experimented with adding any ingredient to it. I may be able to add one or two things that might give it a little more broad spectrum use. Thanks Craig.
    Craig, what is it that you do ? Are you an inventor ?
     
    Thanks again ! My first positive response !
  • yankeestonkyankeestonk subscriber Posts: 1
    Hey Craig,
    If you`re not an inventor, what brings you to this forum?
    If you were me would you pitch this "idea" to the manufacturer and see if they`d give their blessing. If they did that, and just looked at it like "as long as he`s buying from us to sell his stuff we all win", then everything would be cleared to make it fairly easy to do. I think my niche market is great for me, but for a big company it might not be worth pursuing. More like one more thing they might add to the side of box of what this product can do rather than launching a whole new area just for this. That`s why I`m hoping they`d be willing to play ball with me, even if it`s just a "knock yourself out" approach.
    I can tell your a writer, since you give detailed responses. I hate short responses that are negative in nature and don`t really say all that much one way or the other. I`ve found you get a lot of that when you delve into this kind of thing.
    So thanks again !
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
    Craig:
    You are very fortunate to be able to freely offer advice on things.  I have significant potential for liability in offering opinions to unknown people selling unknown ideas about unknown products with unknown formulas and unknown patents in unknown packages branded with unknown trademarks to unknown manufactures with unknown advantages.  When things go badly as they sometimes do, I won`t put myself in the position of having offered blind legal advice in such an "unknown" situation.  Some people understand that, others don`t.
  • yankeestonkyankeestonk subscriber Posts: 1
     
    James,
    Are you upset with Craig or with me? I wasn`t referring specifically to you with my comment about some short responses being negative in nature and not really helpful. However if you choose to take it personally anyway, I found a few of your comments, let`s say, annoying. " How much would you pay for this Pig in my poke" for example. ( first off, it`s pig in A poke ) No one was asking for free legal advice. All I was trying to get from you, or anyone else on this site, was an answer to a hypothetical question. In this case using Dawn dishwashing detergent to clean car tires. Is it or is it not legal to sell an existing product, repackaged, to do something else. I never asked you for legal advice, or anything that could put you in jeopardy. That`s silly. What I wanted to know was is that scenario legal? If you don`t know then say that. But you don`t have to make fun of someone for asking the question. You`re obviously on this forum, I`m assuming it was to answer generic questions and possilbly to gain some good will and possibly pick up a few clients. I don`t see how you`re doing either with your above ramble.
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
    I`m not upset with anybody.  Take it how you will.  If the shoe fits, wear it - if not, don`t.  Also, if I am selling a pig in my bag, it is a pig in my poke.  The method/recipe for Coke might have been patentable at some point - it just won`t be patented because it is more valuable as a secret because the patent application would teach the whole industry how to make the drink.  With the current method of making the drink, it has probably been on sale for more than a year, so that boat has sailed.
  • yankeestonkyankeestonk subscriber Posts: 1
     
    Hey Craig,
    Thanks for the advice. I guess I`m looking to have a company that is in the industry run with it because of the ease, as well as limiting or removing any possible legal problems down the road. ( people getting in their eyes, or swallowing it, etc. etc. etc. !!! ) However I`m kind of on the fence because I don`t think I can patent this idea, and I`m concerned that any company can "steal" the idea and just leave me out to dry. ( am I really going to get into a court case with a large corporation with a product that I don`t produce myself etc. ? ) So maybe you`re right, I may need to get a good attorney and lock down what it is I can or can`t do. I`ll need a place to make up the package, or at least somewhere I can buy the containers and do it myself. Ahhhh ! There`s so much  I don`t know !
  • yankeestonkyankeestonk subscriber Posts: 1
     
    Craig,
    You make some good points, but the other factors working here are my not knowing how to proceed, how not to get ripped off, and how much money this is going to cost and if I have it. ( since I don`t know the amount ! )  I was trying to find out through this forum if what I proposed to do was legal, however I haven`t been able to ascertain that. So I`m not much further along than I was before. I will have to find an attorney that will give me a free consultation, as I know many do. If it appears that I "should" be able to do it but it will take some investigation, then I`d be o.k.. However I can`t justify paying up front to find out that what I`m looking to do is obviously illegal. I`m sure I`m missing something, maybe that`s not the way it works in this area of the law. I`ll check it out and see. It wouldn`t be the first time I`ve been wrong !!
     
     
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
  • bookloverbooklover subscriber Posts: 8 Member
    I`m still wondering what this pet product is... 
  • yankeestonkyankeestonk subscriber Posts: 1
     
    Hey all,
    Sorry, still can name the product ! I did hear back from the manufacturer of the product. ( I e-mailed them that I had an idea ) They sent me an e-mail stating that they don`t accept ideas from the public, but then sent me a letter with a form to fill out with the details of my idea. However it is not a confidentialilty agreement, and states specifically that it isn`t one. And that I can only sue for $5,000 max etc.etc. So I`m not going to be sending that back in and give them my idea for nothing. I`m currently trying to find out the formula for their product, if I can`t get that I`ll have to contact a local patent attorney. I may look at one of these invention houses. The problem is that I need a clearer "plan" before I can move forward, and since I`m in the stage of the "legal" stuff, I really don`t know what to do. Everyone I have spoken to in this area hasn`t been able to give me any idea of how much it will cost to find out if what I want to do is do-able. I can get them to tell me it costs $475 for the patent search, then we`ll take it from there. ....or it`s $200 per hour. I don`t begrudge anyone their right to earn a living, however as a Realtor , everytime someone is interested in me selling their house I have to work up a CMA and tell them my price opinion, go over my advertising and marketing plan, etc. All before I even know if they are going to be my client. Then if I do get the listing I have to invest my own money advertising it and get paid only after it sells. Now I`m not expecting this scenario with an investment house or patent attorney, but it would be nice for someone to be able to say " o.k., we do the search first, if we can`t find it then we do this, and it will most likely cost about this much, etc.". At least I would know what to expect.
     
    Ken
  • bookloverbooklover subscriber Posts: 8 Member
    First rob a bank, then pour the product on the floor, and maybe the cops will do it for you!
  • Innovator7Innovator7 subscriber Posts: 9
    I just read this thread and have following thoughts:1. yankeestonk knows a secret of using an existing product for a particular new application.2. He would like to make money from that knowledge but doesn`t know how, so he uses this forum.3. he can`t reveal the secret yet want some expert to help him gratis4. experts can`t help him as long as he doesn`t provide the specifics.5. There`re many "invention houses" willing to take his money to listen to his ideaSo it`s the same thing: those who know something want to make money from it, whether "it" is a secret (inventor) or a knowledge (expert) or a license to dispense advice (patent attorneys).  It seems money is at the root of all these issues/dialogs.  Only the ones free from concerns such as Craig are free to talk.  But then it`s mostly BS.From a process viewpoint, it takes X amount to money to obtain knowledge and skill and goods and services from others in order to do something to make money from an idea.  Thus the issue is whether it`s worthwhile turning an idea into a money making business, considering all the associated costs.  And that`s for the inventor to figure all out.  Or again pay people to do it for him.  Or the inventor can learn to do all of the above.  In brief, efforts (and time and money) have to be expended to possibly make some money.Or one can give away the idea and/or knowledge and reap satisfaction from doing something good to society.And guess what? Most people don`t give a damn to ideas, free or not.  They have a life to live.  They`ve been doing fine without knowing many ideas or things or knowledge.  So it`s all about marketing, if one`s objective is to make money.I guess I was writing just like Craig, for accomplishing nothing.  Therefore I`d better stop.
    Innovator72007-6-29 9:6:20
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
    I think you are right about the "gratis."  There`s nothing wrong in wanting something for nothing.  It`s not realistic many times, but that`s OK.  I`d like to find a lawyer to donate his/her time to create a trust for me and my family gratis.  I don`t really expect it to happen.
  • blackandwhiteblackandwhite subscriber Posts: 0
    With regard to the existing product`s manufacturer reluctance to consider an outsider`s idea, it is not unusual.While your idea may be unmarketed and worthwhile, they may have indeed thought of it already, but decided not pursue it for the moment, and don`t want to reveal the idea for a competitor to pursue. By listening to your idea, they are in an awkward position of now having you think you gave them the idea, and potentially suing if they ever decide to take the idea to market.
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