End of my Rope!!!



  • Jimmy17Jimmy17 subscriber Posts: 0
    Innovator7,  your inverter example is a good example of bootstrapping up your company.  Fortunately for you, inverters have just enough technology in them to make them difficult to copy, and easier to patent. 
    Non-tech inventions, particularly purely mechanical inventions, are easier to copy, and harder to patent and maintain the status.  Therefore, in general, they have to hit the shelves of the mass retail stores, so they can make some money before they get copied.
    In summary, many inventions are hard to bootstrap because they are so simple in operation and easy to copy.
  • EMMYTAYEMMYTAY subscriber Posts: 0
    Actually, I am learning alot!  I am the one who let a year go by without finalizing my patent, and started selling my product.  Now I have to start over and change something to make it "new" and go through the process to completion. Fortunately, I can make a large enough adjustment to qualify. And luckily I won`t need to go global.
    My understanding, talking to my patent attorneys, is that international patents are hard to protect.  Most countries ignore them and make you come after them.
    My product is easily copied.  I just want to have a patent that I can use to protect my product in those instances where I really want to and to use as a plus when looking for investors.  Too much money can be wasted protecting a patent.  I just want to be the "xerox" in the sea of copiers.  The first, the biggest and the brand name!
  • Jimmy17Jimmy17 subscriber Posts: 0
    I would like to add another comment about PATENTS.  Most patents are junk!
    In the olden days, the PTO (Patent Office) used to require that you send in a working prototype with your patent.  Not anymore.  So, most folks believe they can get a patent on a concept or a block diagram.  And its true, you can.  But let me give you an example of why this is not a good idea:
    In the mid 70`s I tried to patent what would be called an "automatic tone control" for a stereo.  No matter what kind of input you gave it, radio-LP-Cassette-Changing from channel-to-channel, etc, it would try to maintain the same amount of Bass, Mids, and Treble that you preferred in your ears.  It did this by working as a graphic equalizer, with an automatic gain control in each band.  Okay, I could have recieved a patent on that block diagram. 
    But, I decided to build it first.  Low and behold, the circuit had one huge problem that I did not see coming.  If the input went quiet for a while, the tone control would start turning up full blast.  By the time the music came back on, it would blow out the speakers (or at least hurt your ears)!!!  So, I had to fix my circuit by adding another circuit that looked for the "no input signal" scenario. 
    So, my patent now had in it the main concept and the "fix".  This was now a solid patent.  If I had not built it and fixed it, somebody else could have came along with a new patent containing the "fix", making mine immediately obsolete. 
    So, don`t patent anything until you get it working, or you are going to end up with a wortheless patent!  ( I have been telling people this for 30 years and not too many are listening).Jimmy172006-11-20 14:4:5
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
    It sounds like the problem was the PRODUCT and not the PATENT.
  • Innovator7Innovator7 subscriber Posts: 9
    Conflict:This thread is supposed to help with inventions and patents.  However the associated Google ads link the clicker to INVENTION SCAM companies.  There appears the problem:  love of money ruins just about everything.  There`re people who will lie to get your money.  They actually sell you a dream of easy money.
  • BetterMousetrapBetterMousetrap subscriber Posts: 1

    I fear that the people I am trying to reach are going to get lost in this six
    page thread that talks more about every OTHER problem BUT mine!
    Sorry if I seem selfish here BUT I`m the one who is at the end of his rope.
    Throw me a line, give me a lead, or pull me out of the ditch- But please
    take your Debates about other peoples problems SOMEWHERE ELSE!

    As I may have mentioned- I`M AT THE END OF MY ROPE. I`ll relax as soon
    as I see some solutions...
    BetterMousetrap2006-11-21 9:45:46
  • RichRich administrator Posts: 582 Site Admin
    Conflict:This thread is supposed to help with inventions and patents.  However the associated Google ads link the clicker to INVENTION SCAM companies.  There appears the problem:  love of money ruins just about everything.  There`re people who will lie to get your money.  They actually sell you a dream of easy money.
    whenever you see something like this, please record the name of the invention scam company and send us (me) a private message with that information. it`s very difficult to anticipate what google will put in their ads on our site, but we can blacklist advertisers relatively easily.thanks for your diligence. we certainly don`t condone the invention scammer companies (but we do need to keep the lights on around here while providing all of startupnation.com to you for free!).
  • ladderlessladderless subscriber Posts: 3
    As I may have mentioned- I`M AT THE END OF MY ROPE. I`ll relax as soon as I see some solutions... BMT
    Fact:  You have received good suggestions and solutions earlier in this thread
    Fact:  There are NO silver bullets that will solve your problems
    Fact:  You will NOT receive any offers to help you financially from your post in this forum.
    Fact:  You have a whole lot of work to do before you can approach people for money.  You are putting the horse before the cart.
    IMPORTANT FACT:  Investors do NOT like to hear the things you are saying -- You need to listen carefully, understand what people are saying, and realize that you have only 3% of the solution done... 97% is a LONG way to go.  So far, you have not shown yourself to be someone who takes direction, criticism, or understands your own limitations or current position.  Those things will scare the crap out of anyone who might be a potential investor.  These things sink companies.
    We are not here to solve your problems.  That`s what YOU need to do.  If you feel you are hopelessly are stuck at this point, carefully consider if you really want to move forward.  The problems you are having now are only small, early hurdles.  the big ones come later.
    What I am saying should energize you, not discourage you, providing you have what it takes.  Stop whining, get over yourself, and start to educate yourself, and do it beyond what`s handed to you in this thread.
  • BetterMousetrapBetterMousetrap subscriber Posts: 1
    Thankyou again for all your words of wisdom, encouragement & helpfull

  • EMMYTAYEMMYTAY subscriber Posts: 0
    you are right on the "money". excellent comments and very clearly to the point.
  • invent1invent1 subscriber Posts: 0
     1. What did you file as a provisional patent? If it is complete, why did"t you file for the patent? The real expense is in writing the patent, the description, and most importantly the claims. If you file something less than all of the information, you will jepordize your position later, if you add material , you lose the earlier filing date, if you go past the year limit, it becomes public domain, and you lose the whole thing!  The filing fees are not the big expense, it is having the patent properly written , usually by a competent attorney that is the biggest expense. Or you could go the route I did with my first patent, I purchased a book "Patent it Yourself " from NOLO Press publisher, and spent roughly 200 hoours writing, drawing , reseaching , etc. Then took it to a patent attorney , because I did not want to jeopardize my investment of time, and he reviewed it , and made a few changes, for $2000.  Today, I spen between $5500 and $10,000 to have my attorney do it all, the first one pays for it. Unless this is the last idea that will ever pop into your head, you need to use this as a stepping stone. I think you are wrong that foreign manufacturers will not take you seriously if you only have a US Patent. If you can restrict access to this large a market, and they need to build different product to ship here, that is an inconvenience. If their competitor licences your invention and enters this market with it, and it is as good as you say it is, then they will lose market share if they do not license it from you. If these manufacturers sell product in foreign markets with your idea attached, you can pressure them to license it in the US Market , only if they respect your rights on foreign soil. One thing that they will NOT respect is a provisional Patent. It is a time bomb ticking, and it shows you did not develope your invention as a patent on paper thoroughly enough to spend $1000 filing fee!  If you really spent $40,000 developing oyur idea, what is stopping you from spending $5000, to 10,000 to get the right kind of protection?  I am guessing some type of vehicle stabilization device that shifts the weight toward the rear wheel, lifting the front, and dropping the back of the motorcycle in a hard stop, thereby maintaining the maximim friction between the tires, and the road surface. This coupled with anti lock brakes could make a motorcycle much safer!  Better file soon before someone else come up with your idea!  You can`t just sit on it, the clock is ticking! 
  • KangaKidKangaKid subscriber Posts: 1
     Mmmmmm, just thinking, what I would do in your position is to approach local MC dealerships for the main brands with a binding confidential agreement and get them to do the leg work and kick it up stairs. Remember a patent is only good if everyone follows the rules as alot of people have found out over the last few years.If it is as good as you claim one of the majors will mass produce it in China and flood the market before the opposition can catch their collective breath. Tie them up to a small margin per unit, some consultant fees, kick back and watch the dollars roll in.
    KangaKid2006-12-27 4:4:2
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