About Patenting



  • JanetFJanetF subscriber Posts: 4
    Once I have complete descriptions and drawings, is the rest of the application simple to fill out? So you are saying to fill it out myself and then have an attorney review it for mistakes before submitting? 
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
    no.  I`m saying most people should either hire a lawyer or do nothing.  I have no idea what you should do.  Legal Zoom is a waste of money for filing patent applications based on my experience with clients who have used them.  If that`s what you are up for, that`s fine.
    Would you build your house then hire a carpenter to come out to "review it" and make sure it won`t fall down before moving in?  I would hire a carpenter to build the house.  I am not competent to build my own house.  I admit that and do what I do best and hire others to do what I can`t.  I regularly look at patent application prepared by inventors.  The applications suck.  They all suck.  They always all suck all the time with no exceptions.   They never don`t suck.  They suck because the people that write them do not know how to write them - how could they not suck?
  • stevesteve subscriber Posts: 14
    Janet, I`m reading a book that I highly recommend you check out. It`s called Mommy Millionaire. Kim Lavine goes through the whole process of invention,  manufacturing, selling, etc. of her invention.

    I was going to recommend that SUN have her on the show but I guess I`m a bit late. Guess I missed that show. I`ll catch it tomorrow. 
  • drvagdrvag subscriber Posts: 5
    Hi Janet.  Here`s my two cents worth...
    As they have said on here already, stay away from invention companies.  You pay them,... you get nothing in return but how great your invention is.  This you know already.
    Did you try to see if those certain search words bring anything up on google or yahoo?  I have talked to several people who tell me there is nothing like it, but when I enter a few words on google, something usually comes up.
    HIRE a patent attorney to do the search.  Mine usually charges between $500 and $1000 depending on the complexity of the invention.  And he usually does a quick search for free for me first.  He does it better than I, so if he doesn`t find anything, I usually go for the patent search.
    Have ALL manufacturers and anybody else sign a non-compete/non-disclosure agreement before you disclose.  If they refuse to sign because they "don`t do that", then don`t use them.  Most respectable companies do this all the time.
    Check out the forum on www.intelproplaw.com</A> and ask your questions there in their forum.
    Hope this helps.
    Best of success
  • drvagdrvag subscriber Posts: 5
    Janet, I forgot to add.
    Make sure you use a patent attorney to prepare the application.  Do not do it yourself or pay $300 to legal zoom or whoever it was you mentioned.  It`ll cost probably at a minimum of $5000 for the app by a good attorney.  BUT, if your idea is a winner, you`ll be glad you hired a professional and spent the money down the road when someone knocks you off.
  • JanetFJanetF subscriber Posts: 4
    Thanks for the info.
    Does your patent attorney service out of state clients? The ones I`m finding around here are much more expensive than $5000.
    I`ll check out the book...thanks.
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
    many patent attorneys service out of state clients.  i service out of state clients and think the internet has made the process easier with pdf documents, fax machines, etc.
  • drvagdrvag subscriber Posts: 5
    Janet, you would have to ask him if he does out of state.  He may.  And as James just said, the internet does make it easier to do.  Although, "my experience only" I find it better sometimes, to be able to sit across the table from him when we first meet and then maybe later on the final draft.  I know for a fact, that he has picked up on certain expressions of excitement in my voice more than once, that he would never have over the internet.  From this it has helped him to capture or lead me into another discussion over "claims" in the patent.
    But that`s just my preference. For what it`s worth.
    If you want his name, let me know.  I`m in Cincinnati area.  I`d be happy to share it.
    Take care
  • Innovator7Innovator7 subscriber Posts: 9
    go to inventnet.com for resources re. invention.I`m a "graduate" from that forum.  Buy or borrow "Patent It Yourself" if you want to get smart about patenting.Patenting just like anything else is something that can be learned.  Personally I don`t use patent attorneys (having drafted over 50 applications and all my issued patents are pro se) nor doctors nor plumber nor car mechanics - the latter have a record of messing up my cars in the past.  But that is just me!!!!
  • drvagdrvag subscriber Posts: 5
    Innovtor7.  I disagree with your advice.  Just because you have over 50 applications issued, the real test comes when your patent is challenged in court by a competitor and their lawyer who has the education and experience.
    I don`t think I want to put my dog in that fight.
    Just curious, how many of your 50 patents have you invested large sums of money, possibly your life savings, to see it go to market, do extremely well, and suddenly a competitor starts eating your lunch.  Are you confident that you crossed all the Ts and dotted all the I`s AND by the correct dates required? 
    What about international protection?  Are you well trained there also?
    I stand by my earlier advice.  Hire a "real" patent attorney!   drvag2007-5-25 8:22:58
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
    I think it is possible in theory that there are such people that can in fact do their own patent work, dental work, house building, shoe making, food growing, cloth weaving, etc....  If there is such a person like that on the list, good for you.  I`ve never met one, but maybe they are out there.  There are probably not very good at ANY of those things [how could they be?] but they might be able to throw something together [e.g. the shoes are always sandals, the house is a cave in the side of a mountain, etc].
  • Innovator7Innovator7 subscriber Posts: 9
    I like this joke: "a consultant is someone who borrows your watch to tell you what time it is".Or take the case of oil change for my car: why should I make an appointment, drive 15 minutes to the dealership, wait there 30-60 minutes to have oil change in my car, to have the priviledge of paying their $100/hr labor rate when I can do it in 5 to 10 minutes? (I bought an oil pump to suck old oil out for $9.95).I got US and PCT patents, founded high tech companies based upon those patents.  My patents are referred to in many patents and academic papers.One of my expertises is to design around patents written by attorneys.  Or improve on them if possible.Of course when money is easy, one would hire "experts" to do things for oneself, but it pays to become expert oneself, in time and money.Many inventors spend time and money on patents instead of on commercialization, to end up with just wall decoration.  Up to 98% patents are just that, wall decorations.But of course people are free to spend their money whichever way they see fit.
    Innovator72007-5-25 11:3:27
  • Innovator7Innovator7 subscriber Posts: 9
    Please tell Lemelson he shouldn`t have written his 500+ patents and made billions of dollars suing Ford and GM and other major corporations, and founded a center for innovation at MIT.No one should do what he did.
  • patentandtrademarkpatentandtrademark subscriber Posts: 103
    I think Lemelson is dead.  It`s probably easier [at least for me] to reach some of the thousands of people that wrote their own patent applications and got nowhere.  I have some of their names and addresses and phone numbers.  They sometimes call me and ask me to "fix" their problems, which is often hopeless at that point.
  • Innovator7Innovator7 subscriber Posts: 9
    I just googled Lemelson and read the bit that his foundation does not stress on patenting part as much as making useful inventions available to the poor.  I have a couple of those but can`t offer the products for free, such as solar water distiller, solar appliances.
    Innovator72007-5-25 10:48:51
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